Protestors angry over a July 10 police raid of a 29th and Judkins apartment rented by some people active in Occupy Seattle took to the streets <strike>Saturday</strike> Friday.
The march started at Westlake Park downtown and headed to Capitol Hill before heading through the CD for a rally at Douglass-Truth Library.
According to a post at the Puget Sound Anarchists website, marchers handed out stacks of fliers to passers by to spread the word about their opposition to the raid.
In contrast to other recent marches in Seattle, which seemed to aim mostly for a spectacular effect, this demonstration focused specifically on the dissemination of information about the raid. Demonstrators distributed thousands of copies of at least four different flyers to curious passersby. People left leaflets on cars, gave them to those dining in restaurants, and briefly explained what was happening to people who emerged from their homes along the march route.
Police say the raid “resulted in evidence that will be useful in the investigation” of property damage and alleged assault during the May 1 protests. Nobody was arrested in the search of the apartment, but the residents were detained while officers executed a search warrant. Flash grenades and a battering ram were used in the early morning action, though police note that residents were cooperative.
If you were at the protest and have photos or a take on how it went, post them in the comments below.
I witnessed the march from the corner of 12th/Union/Madison. A protester shoved his arm and propoganda (litter) uninvited into my friends car while they blocked traffic. I watched the march, validated the right to protest, and then marveled at the amount of litter that was left behind. Oh and the firecrackers, aren’t they illegal? Wait, this group doesn’t fit into the lawful bit right???
…but I am a CD neighbor, saw the raid, and it was WAY over the top. I’m glad people are protesting this treatment by police. I’m also amazed (well, maybe not really) that the “mainstream” news is reporting none of this story.
I don’t support vandalism or violence in any way. However, it scares me when police seem more concerned about identifying vandals and “organizers” than they do about arresting drug dealers and shooters/murderers.
What an outrage this raid was. Our city is suffering from a gun violence epidemic and what do the police do? Serve a search warrant by throwing grenades and bashing in doors like they are pretending to be the Navy SEALs. What a waste of taxpayer dollars!
Instead of heavy weapons training how about we send those military boys over to learn about investigating crimes, like all of these random gun violence cases they just can’t seem to figure out, you know, do some actual police work? We don’t need an invasion force to terrorize suspects and their unlucky neighbors.
Sure, serve your warrant on the protesters, whatever. But do it like real police officers. Go up and knock on the door and say in a professional manor you are serving a search warrant, don’t go running around like you’re on the nightime raid of Bin Laden’s hideout. Our city is cutting its budget all over, and here we have some toy soldiers literally blowing through our city’s expenses like it is water.
The march happened on friday evening, not saturday.
Oops, brain fart. I was thinking Friday and typing Saturday. Ugh. Thanks. Fixed it.
Anarchists in Seattle have consistently, since WTO and earlier, employed violence, rioting, and destruction of property for the purpose of creating fear and intimidation to further their political ambitions. This is the definition of terrorism.
Anarchists have employed terrorism against the peaceful citizens of seattle, our judicial system, our businesses, and our government. Anarchists recenlty firebombed the federal courthouse. Smashing out the glass and throwing in flares and smoke grenates is fire bombing. You can try to talk it down like flares and smoke are no bid deal. Kind of like shooting a person with a hand gun instead of a rifle. I guess I would rather be shot by the hand gun, but, it is still attempted murder – as is fire bombing. The risk is extreme. It is terrorism.
As is the repeated distruction of our downtown businesses, the attacks on our police officers and police stations. The destruction of peoples personal property, cars, etc. The tagging with the anarchist A meant to leave a lingering message of terror.
The fact that the anarchists are a puny irrelevant bunch of under educated misfits does not mean they do not cause real harm, fear, and intimidation to the citizenry. In fact, the march on Friday did cause me to change my dinner plans. It was not prudent to take my girlfriend and friends to dinner in the area where anarchists are marching and know to riot and commit terroism, so, we went elsewhere. Personally I would love to have hand a battle with them. I was armed to the gills Friday just in case, but, everyone else wanted a quite dinner. So we went to Columbia City.
As I was unable to go out to dinner where and when I wanted due to terrorism, combidined with the fire bombing to the courthouse, I must side with SPD. Terrrorists are handled with a level of force like or above what has been employed by SPD. The anarchists should feel lucky that it is not worse yet. They are headed towards a fight that they will lose.
Further more, it is safer to get their fight on with the police before they end up crossing pathes with me. If you attack my home, jump on my vehicle with me inside in the middle of one of your riots, I will assume that you mean harm. You would then fall to the ground.
The people in this house were not anarchists. They were a couple of girls who were mortified by the raid, apologized to their neighbors, and held a neighborhood BBQ for everyone the next night. You go ahead and approve of these Gestapo tactics…until they come ramming through your door in riot gear with guns and grenades. They don’t always get the right house you know.
I totally agree with House Carl, this was a total waste of resources and makes me call into question the priorities of the mayor and SPD.
“Girls”? Seriously? They were minors?
Grumbo is one of the “CDnewsers” mentioned by, so far, over a dozen young people who hate CD news because its a “gentrifier” website. does anyone actually know grumbo or are my theories probably correct?
Are we ageist now? ‘a dozen young people’…what equals young?
Actually, if you follow the long history of the self-proclaimed Anarchists in Seattle, you will see that they are indeed terrorists. When neighbors complain about their noise, they paintbomb and otherwise vandalize neighbors’ houses, justifying it under the guise of “those people are “rich” gentrifiers; look at the value of their home!” They break car windows, graffiti churches, and assault police horses for God’s sake. At what point do you say, “This is indeed terrorism.” If it were happening to me, I would be terrorized. Your falling in to the same old trap that others in the CD have fallen in to with drug dealers. “I like them. They’re nice when I talk to them. Thus they must be ok, regardless of their actions.”
Grumbo – I totally agree.
We have your word that there are “over a dozen” young people who hate this website. I don’t buy that for a second.
“gentrifier website” ??!!?? What kind of mindless labeling is this? Either you are making it up or the combinded IQ of the people you are talking about is 12. I do not buy it either.
Clearly you didn’t get what JudkinsDog2 said. The girls were not anarchist!
Cry me a river ;(
Anarchists are not terrorists. A group of people dressed in black, showing no affiliation to any belief, smashed some windows. Because of the way the cops and local news reported it, they were “anarchists”, thus all anarchists are guilty. I have never vandalized property, nor committed violence in the name of my beliefs, yet you call me a terrorist. Way to use your brain. You probably think all Arabs are terrorists too. McCarthyism? Down with that, too? How about those internment camps for Japanese Americans during WWII?
Ohhhh, look at you troll, it’s kind of cute. “Cry me a river”…again, cute.
@Lazara – “girls”…”guys” – you know what I mean.
@MrsD – You might want to start thinking critically and stop buying into the “terrorist” propaganda. No one in my neighborhood has been paint bombing, making noise, breaking windows, or any of this. There is no proof that the residents of the house that was raided were involved in any of these activities. If there was evidence, they would have been arrested. Even if they WERE involved, a SWAT team raid with a battering rams, M-16s and flash grenades is the appropriate response? Really? This seems reasonable to you? This is where city resources should be going? A couple of cops knocking on the door with a search warrant would have accomplished the same thing.
The media creates fear about “terrorism” and people buy into it. Sorry, but people breaking windows or shoving fliers in your face is not terrorism. 9/11 was terrorism. There is a difference.
Gentrification is a white person’s word. Spoken about other white people. We have college drop outs moving into the hood, still to immature to get out of the immediate gratification demand and actually learn to provide a honest day’s work for a day’s pay. Still to ignorant to realize they don’t know much. Lashing out at authority like a frustrated hungry infant. Parasites ranting about their host’s impact on the world. Anarchists? No. Just complainers.
JD2. What you are saying is that since some terrorists have caused extreme trauma, all lesser terrorists are not terrorists. Like if a rapists only commits 5 rapes, he is not a rapist because somebody else commited 50 rapes.
Fire bombing the court house, attacking police officers, smashing comercial and personal property, spray painting hate messages all over town, violent propaganda on fliers and internet sites. Anarchists are terrorists. They intend to be terrorists. They are dangerous. They are treated like other dangerous terrorists.
As I’ve mentioned earlier – I don’t advocate violence or vandalism. But to say these people are terrorists is ridiculous. To say all anarchists are terrorists is equally ridiculous. What happened downtown on May 1, while I don’t agree with the tactics, did not result in serious injury. It was a few people that got out of control while many others were exercising their right to free speech. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to say it.
The gang shootings and drug dealing happening in my neighborhood? That’s what concerns me. Maybe the SPD should focus on that.
JD2, why is this personal to you if you were not involved. Obviously somebody connected to the raided locations was connected. What has that got to do with you. Nobody said you did anything. Did you?
Violence is violence. When people attack society, they get a response from law enforcement. That’s all that is going on. SPD is responding to violence against the citizens of Seattle, committed by selp proclaimed anarchists. This was not an isolated event. It is repeated, consistent violence by anarchists at countless “protests”, over many years.
Why you continue to try and minimize the attacks by the anarchists is unclear and strange. Are you completely ignorent of recent history?
DB – It’s personal to me because I was woken up by the sound of grenades going off on my street. Because I thought the cloud of smoke coming in our windows was tear gas. Because it was scary to think there might be a murderer or meth house in the unassuming apartment on my street and of course, this is what would necessitate a police response with over two dozen SWAT team officers. But no, a couple of people who were suspected of vandalism (being an anarchist is not a crime) were terrified themselves by a completely ridiculous raid. As a resident of Seattle, you better damn well believe this involves me. It involves my neighborhood and alters my view of the police who are supposed to protect us.
It seems that if the police did not arrest anyone in the apartment, they did not have any hard evidence that anyone in the apartment committed a crime. So with such flimsy evidence, they terrified an entire neighborhood and conducted a raid unacceptable in its force. I question the use of resources used in this raid relative to the “crime”. Doesn’t this make sense to you? “The anarchists” are mostly people who are protesting capitalism and advocating for global solidarity. Sorry, not a crime. A few assholes think it’s fun to break windows and destroy property, they are not the majority.
It’s personal to me because I see a country more concerned with protecting property than protecting its people.
That is kind of dramatic, well not kind of, it is. Should the police have knocked on the door with chocolates and flowers? It is Seattle, where we have castrated and paralyzed the police force due to some bad apples and an unfit mayor. They (the police force) truly are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t, you can argue around that till the cows come home, but that is the real problem here. Nothing they do will ever be completely right w/ everyone now will it? We should just give up and not have a lawful society, then we will see how much we really need those that protect and serve. Hell lets put the anarchists in charge we won’t have any windows left in 3 months on any building!
Go ahead. Make my day.
are you guys posting this stuff from puyallup? who are you? you sound like a bunch of racist good old boys trolling a democratic party forum. i’ve also been seeing a lot of people getting called out on the street for being getrifiers. i think its thanks to this vile filth you all put on these comments. does anyone know grumbo bill? who are these people? cops? developers?
If vandals who spray paint on walls and break windows are terrorists then the term “terrorist” has no meaning. If low-level criminal offenders are now terrorists then I nominate people who don’t use their turn signals.
To say that in Seattle we have a “castrated and paralyzed police force” is so far off the mark that it is a fantasy. Because in reality, not just a few bad apples, the police force in Seattle thinks itself so far above the law and uses so much excessive force that the US Department of Justice has had to involve itself in reforming it.
Besides, there’s a lot of room between “chocolates and flowers” and throwing grenades. As a matter of fact there is this whole area between those extremes that one might call “professionalism”, where detectives knock on the door and politely but serve their warrant, only firm if need be.
Face it, if a Bin Laden compound-style raid is your idea of serving a search warrant then you’ve been watching too much late night tv.
@ allright seriously
What is wrong with developers and cops we welcome them, they are needed and not a bad element. Go troll somewhere else as you could not be that ignorant as to make the flamming comments you have. The more upscale development and the more cops ending the CD as a containment zone the better! No one wants to be poor or live in a violent shithole area. Go home to mommy and daddy, tel them you been very naughty. Perhaps they will do you a favor and finally spank you!
We’re not talking about vandals and tagers, though there is nothing wrong with arresting and locking them up as well. We are talking about people so unhinged as to attack the US District Court. The last group to do that was some far out fringe of the Aryan Nations. Which is precisly where I place the little whitey anarchists with big chips on their shoulders. “Boo hoo the government is out to get me – I will riot, attack, make threats, until I am snuffed out by the FBI”. That’s what you have coming. That’s what your going to get. Doing millions of dollars in damage to our businesses and threatening the ciyt is what we are talking about. Your stupid little girl neighbors are ignorant of the rise and fall of anti-goverment terrorist groups in the PNW from the Wobblies to Richard Buttler they always get what is due after their distructive anti-society tantrums.
“Grumbo” lives on my block. He takes care of the landscaping for several of the neglected homes in our neighborhood. He is the most outgoing and friendly person I have met since moving to Seattle two years ago. He watches out for me, fixes my fence, and closes my garage door when I leave it open. He rides his bike, hangs out at local restaraunts, and coffee shops. Nobody knows what he does for a living. He vanishes for a few days at a time and always has a new car.
I think we all know that the police may not not always provide the public of all details of an investigation. So, from my perspective this amount of force signaled that SPD was not just serving a search warrant, but was looking to apprehend actual suspect(s). When cops want someone who they deem likely to flee or likely to use force on the police department, they tend not to knock. The batons and etc come out. It makes sense to me that if the police were looking for suspects that have vandalized a government building and/or the mayor’s home and who hide their identity(ies) while destroying public and private property all in the name of a political movement which has officially declared that they want to “take down” law enforcement and the current political and social system, then I say, yes the amount of force makes sense. Not saying I agree or disagree, just that it is appropriate under our current laws and policies as authored by our elected officials and interpreted by our institutions and representatives. The fact that the suspect(s) were not home, is not the department’s “fault” unless they got the wrong house or people altogether. Then it is an error in investigation but not in the actual capture procedure. I am sorry that the neighbors received a scare. But I do not feel it is appropriate for law enforcement to modify their arrest procedures around neighborhood sleep schedules. As as far as applying this type of force to apprehend a drug dealer and then only “knock on the door” of a suspected “terrorist” (terrorist as defined by those who commit violence in the name of a political belief for the goal of dismantling the current government and social system), that seems to be a very illogical and biased application of force, therefore I don’t agree. If the women in the house did not fully understand the consequence of physically attacking government institutions and local government, well then I hope this serves as a wake up call and it either motivates you to toughen up and better prepare yourselves for the conflict you signed up for or to reconsider if this is indeed for you. I suggest you prepare for the fight and the consequences as it might actually come, not as you think it SHOULD. And to the argument that not all anarchist engage in violence, etc. Well sorry. But if you wear the uniform (metaphorically) of a movement, you represent the movement and either participate, support or enable the movement and it’s actions – or you distance yourself from it and create your own branch. We don’t know YOU and it is not about YOU as a person but as a collective perceive threat. Just like not all cops are whatever you perceive them to be, but in being the strong arm that protects the interest of our capitalist society (I am paraphrasing from Puget Sound Anarchist articles), they are considered a threat by some. In short, you pick a fight, eventually you’re going to get one. Act like a revolutionist, not a victim.
You are frightfully delusional. No one firebombed the court house on May Day. The “incendiary devices” the news mentioned? Pretty sure those were SMOKE BOMBS and FLARES.
Again, we agree. Anarchists broke out the courthouse windows threw smoke bombs and flares. What was the point in doing that? What are the risks of doing that?
Both smoke bombs and flares are are extremely dangerous when not used as intended. Local and Federal laws prohibit improper use of them for good reason. Using them in a croud is dangerous. Throwing them into a Federal Courthouse? That is arson. In the context of an anti-government riot – it is terrorism. Combine that with destruction of millions of dollars in damage to the city’s business core and surrounding and damaging innocent peoples cars – terrorism. Stop with your poor missunderstood little girl arguments. Arson, Rioting, Destruction of Property, Assault are big crimes. Grow up in prison.
what block is that exactly? you know, the one where you know mr grumbo from? because i’m pretty sure grumbo is not even from the CD. and honestly, do people actually believe what is being said on these threads?
does anyone else see this insanity?
“In short, you pick a fight, eventually you’re going to get one. Act like a revolutionist, not a victim.”
a bunch of communists lived in that house, not anarchists. seriously. everyone who keeps equating the raid with may day vandalism has clearly got some REALLY transparent motivations.
again, anyone else think these are cops? or just right wingers in the suburbs?
@whoareyoupeople? The question is who are YOU? The posters that you are accusing of being cops or suburban trolls actually have registered usernames with this site and I see their postings all the time (unlike yourself who chooses to remain a “guest”). What I am hearing are the concerns of people who are vested in this neighborhood, probably homeowners (or “gentrifiers” as you would label them), who are trying to secure a pleasant, safe neighborhood in which to raise their families. If you/anarchists/communists/whatever want to foment revolution and chaos, go somewhere else.
All points of view and political views are welcome on CDNews. Debating somebody’s argument is one thing (or even annoying bickering, to a certain extent). But “go somewhere else” is not a productive thing to say.
I really wish everyone would calm down whenever the word “anarchist” is published on CDNews. It is a political belief that happens to appeal to some CD residents. I’m sorry if everyone doesn’t like that, but it’s reality. Of course, argue and debate how it does or does not help the neighborhood. Even voice your anger about it. But if everyone ditched the “terrorism” talk, we might have a conversation that is a bit more productive.
On the flip side, because someone doesn’t agree with anarchist tactics or philosophy does not mean they are a heartless and racist gentrifier.
All anarchists don’t vandalize property, just like all Democrats don’t Tweet photos of their crotches and all Republicans don’t hire male prostitutes while preaching about “traditional” marriage, etc, etc.
There is no way for me to verify who is and is not from the CD, but I try to delete things that are highly suspect (off-topic trolling, etc). I am sure I can improve as a moderator, and try to do so.
We all want the neighborhood to be better. We all want less crime. We all want justice and equality for everyone. And of course, I’m not suggesting we are all going to get along. But if comment threads keep going as hostile and ridiculous as this one, your neighbors are simply going to go away (or at least stop reading the comments altogether). And I don’t want that, and you shouldn’t either. CDNews is a special opportunity to talk to (mostly) people from your neighborhood. I wish everyone would respect that and at least treat each other like human beings worthy of your time.
And please, let’s stop it with all the “character” handles. You can be anonymous, of course, but at least approach the conversation with honesty. I have no interest in investing my time and emotions talking to a character. CDNews is not YouTube.
I’m putting this comment here because I know that it is far enough down an old comment thread that only the hardcore commenters will likely read it (and I really do love you all). Please consider making some positive changes to your commenting approach if you fit any of the behaviors I’ve described. Thank you.
Grumbo’s comments see very specific about current events and locations in the CD. He has reported on menu items at Judkins Cafe, Neighbor Lady, Cheeky and other restaurants. He has acurately described person’s, places, events in amazing detail. He is definately a regular and hightly informed on daily CD life. He describes the view from Broadcast Coffee and the patrons in perfect detail. Seems legit to me. And I agree with him on many threads, including this one.
Let me be clear that I am not an anarchist, do not believe in their philosophy, and do not support vandalizing property. Just because I speak up for a group of people does not mean I am one of them.
Let me also be clear that I do support free speech and the right for people to live with their beliefs peacefully. It doesn’t matter what you, the cops, or anyone else reads in any of their literature, it is not a crime to be an anarchist, nor want to change the society for the better (well, at least for the better in their minds). That does not make them terrorists, and neither does a broken window, graffiti, or other acts of vandalism perpetrated by a misguided few among them.
Now perhaps the cops were there to arrest somebody, I don’t know but I did read elsewhere they were there serving a search warrant and only left with some anarchist literature. No matter how much you disagree with anarchists and hate the vandalism they are alleged to commit, they are not in open rebellion against the government, are not violent, and are not fomenting revolution. And when the cops bust in and throw grenades they, and their neighbors, are victims.
Out police force is known for excessive force and stepping over the line. The Justice Department wants to our police force to be reformed for a good reason. There are limits to what cops can do, a boundary where the public interest is no longer being served. And it is supposed to be that way in a free society. Yes it makes policing more difficult to respect everyone’s rights, but without it we aren’t a free country. And keeping America a free country is more important to me then assuaging fears over the non-existent danger of anarchists.
Also, all apologies to Tom Fucoloro for keeping this thread going, though I don’t think I could be called a “hardcore” poster since outside of this thread I’ve only posted at CDNews a half dozen times.
Re: “But if everyone ditched the “terrorism” talk, we might have a conversation that is a bit more productive. “
Tom, you’re missing the point that, by Lucas you know who’s own posts, (dont want you to delete me by posting his name) the FBI is indeed investigating a very small but very destructive Seattle group who insist upon committing property destruction and assaults in response to both neighbors and SPD. YOU may not see them as domestic terrorist, but just like the Ruby Ridge and Waco folks, others do see people who firebomb (with flares, allegedly) the courthouse, paintbomb neighbors who complain and attack SPD cars, precincts and officers as terrorists. The local website for this group promises horrid things to come for “gentrifiers” and “cop lovers.” That’s terrorizing and intimidation as a means to shutting up neighbors. Just because YOU don’t feel terrorized by this behavior, does not mean that neighbors, and the FBI, agree with you!
Oh, I left out attacking the jail building. That too, among dozens of incidents of vandalism, postering for the purposes of intimidation, breaking windows and graffiti-ing a church, vandalizing patrol cars, assaulting cops, and general mayhem. What exactly, then, is terrorism?
I can’t speak of these allegations of firebombing but it sounds like just more incredibly misguided vandalism to me, not terrorism. And I don’t think postering is done for the purposes of intimidation (I actually think that is kind-of silly), and if this group that you disagree with trying to spread their message is terrorism then the phrase truly has no meaning.
Just because you feel intimidated does not make something terrorism. Wouldn’t you feel intimidated if you were mugged? If so, does that mean mugging is terrorism? Wouldn’t all crime suddenly become terrorism?
And what about the lawful behavior you describe, such a postering, how is that terrorism? No, just because you are afraid of anarchists does not make them terrorists. You and you alone are in control of your feelings. The state isn’t there to save you from everything that goes bump in the night.
And frankly, there is a word for the police state you want to check under your bed for you at night, it’s called tyranny. And if you would prefer tyranny to tempering your own misguided fears over a small group of young people then the problem in our neighborhood isn’t the anarchists, it is you.
That is terrorism. These “young” people want us to think it is just an innocently rebelious youth movement. Problem is it is not innocent. It is anti-American and violent. They want us to be desensitized to this aberant, uncivilized, unacceptable behavior.
There is a wide gap between our understandings Carl. I don’t know how to bridge it.
While I agree that it is not particularly terrorizing to me or many others, perhaps we could call it quazi-terroristic, or terroism light. They are commiting violent acts to make political persuasions. It is terrible thinking. It is dangerous. Somebody will get hurt, most likely the foolish rebels.
While few of us are happy with the stagnant political ass gas – locally and nationally, there is no reason for violence. I 100% refuse to accept any discussion with violent anti-Americans. I don’t shop at Niketown. Nike shoes don’t fit my feet and activity well. But there is no reason for violent attacks against them.
And I do not accept the presence of any offensively violent people in our neighborhood. The police are acting in a defensive capacity as requested by the citizens of Seattle. If you don’t like them, run for office. McGinn and the Council were elected by a majority of weird assed liberal freaks that make up Seattle. And still we support SPD – why? Because they are doing exactly what we want them to do. Seeking out violent criminals and prosecuting them.
The argument about who is and isn’t an anarchist vs communist vs terrorist isn’t going to make the CD safer. None of us know who the people in that house are and what they have done, do we? It is a police matter, with the help of the DOJ apparently, but none of them have been convicted of a crime or even arrest as far as we know.
Again, the point is — the SPD didn’t arrest anyone, didn’t find guns or weapons, took some clothing and paper. If they are willing to use SWAT for such a low yield operation, why aren’t they cracking down on the known criminals in the CD?
At this point Grumbo I’m not sure how to bridge them either. I don’t think we disagree on as much as you think, I am not against the police “acting in a defensive capacity as requested by the citizens of Seattle”. I don’t even know why you think I am not. I do, however, disagree that throwing grenades in an apartment invasion is acting in a defensive capacity, nor requested by the citizens of Seattle, nor in the public interest.
More so, calling vandalism terrorism, or even “light terrorism” is a serious overreaction that I don’t see as in line with the public interest, nor something that I see any proof that is widely accepted by the citizens of the city.
The anarchists might be offensive to you, but calling them offensively violent is mischaracterization to terrible degree. A few bad apples need to be weeded out, yes, and in doing so the cops have an obligation to do so in a way that respects the rights of not only the innocent, but the rights of the accused as well.
Do remember this is still America where even the accused have rights and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. And when the cops perform a military-style raid to seize some literature somebody was reading, or whatever, they aren’t making our neighborhood safer. In fact I think the exact opposite is true.
You thinking that anarchists are “offensively violent”, to be quite honest, is your problem. But when the police start acting like they are invading Al Qaeda’s Seattle redoubt that makes it everyone else’s problem too, and that’s where the problem is.
I am only speaking in regards to the violent individuals and their associates. Anarchism and other political idologies are things I have ponderred myself over the years. Eventually most people realize the impracticality of overly idealized political points.
Anarchist, Marxist, Federalist, etc. etc. are all a part of our current system. Tea Partiers are anarchistic. Government by the people is anarchistic.
I am for limited government. Yet, I am for education. For national defense. I am opposed to a police state and would prefer the right to protect myself in a more vigilant way. But, given the nancy headed don’t take the law into your own hands b.s., I must rely on the police.
There are some faily simple rules that we should all agree on and accept enforcement action against. 1) Raping. 2) Killing/Assaulting. 3) Smashing other peoples stuff. 4) Stealing. 5) Some other stuff.
A political view point is one thing. But I want the May 1 persons who were destroying property, and their accomplises, to be brought to justice. SPD has been specifically targetted and threatenned. The level of force used is standard for situations where direct threats have been made. Were the residents involved or had associates been present there? SPD believes so. DOJ beleives so. Did they only collect anarchist literature? I don’t know. But writings, computer equipment and such can often be used to identify statements and actions by individuals.
The posters were meant to intimidate. Anyone reading them can see that.
You can drop a rock off an overpass as a childish prank, and say “I just meant for it to scare the drivers!” but you’ll be charged with reckless endangerment (in the very least). It doesn’t MATTER whether you believe they were trying to set the building on fire by breaking out the windows and throwing a flare in. It’s Arson, regardless of what you believe.
Regarding the raid, why not wait for the release of the probable cause statement before jumping to conclusions. You have no idea (nor do any of us) what evidence there was of threats, explosives, etc. that would have supported such a response. Obviously a judge signed the warrant, and felt there was sufficient threat. Let’s wait and see what the situation really is/was.
Please note, that my post was meant to be my opinion on a specific incident. There was no opinion on the anarchist movement or police department as a whole. It is meant to offer an opinion on why I do not feel “outraged” over the level of force used and consider it a logical (not good, not bad, but logical) part of the police investigation. My mood when writing was matter of fact and unemotional. Please also note, that I am using the term “terrorist” in a very clinical manner and from the perspective of how the state may and is possibly viewing this group. Of personal opinion, to me “terrorist” does not necessarily equal “bad”. I can think of examples when home grown “terrorism” can be “just”. So I do not feel the need to avoid the word. In forming my opinion I took the following into consideration:
1. The home dwellers declared themselves in solidarity with the Anarchist movement and it is even stated in the Puget Sound Anarchist Newletter that one the occupant was indeed a participant of the May Day event (participant in the protest, not necessarily any violence). I quote from http://pugetsoundanarchists.org/node/1858 “So L crawled out of bed, put on some pants, and knelt on the floor with his hands behind his head—before the police even entered his apartment. L wasn’t surprised. He’s been a participant in the Occupy events, anarchist circles, and the May Day protests”. So there is a connection to May Day and this home.
2 Anarchists repeatedly take credit in acts of vandalism in the name of their political movement. A local example: “Last night in Seattle we smashed the windows of two banks and a Starbucks. It is saddening that so many people experience banks as institutions of exploitation yet refuse to take the step of attacking them”.
3. The targets of physical violence from this group more often than not are civilian institutions and personal property. Though some government buildings have been targeted, to this date I have not read of any attack on military. Please correct me if I am wrong. Their victims are therefore civilian.
4 I may be misinterpreting and I only personally know one Anarchist and their viewpoint with detail, but I do not see nor hear any mention of police reform. What they are asking is not for change within the system, but a complete decimation of the system. The police is viewed as the protector of the “repressive capitalist system”, the rich and those in power, not the ordinary citizen (to me there is some truth there). So the fight is against ALL police, therefore each department’s individual record is irrelevant.
5 The Anarchists state they want to dismantle the US Government and any and all institutions that represent Capitalism. And through some of their websites, pamphlets, graffiti and the rhetoric of it’s members, they appear to promote, incite and participate in destruction and/or violence to achieve this. Again, not saying if this is good or bad, just interpreting what is stated in their literature and members.
Lastly, my personal opinion, and this is just personal opinion. I have absolutely no proof of this, but I feel that as a group, the Anarchist are NOT looking to physically hurt people. But given the rhetoric used by some of it’s representatives and the baiting of police, I suspect there may be some small group(s) within the organization who are looking to do more serious damage. If I was in charge of public safety, I would investigate to assure that the threats of escalated violence on some posts are not actually being planned.
Thank you all for the food for thought. This is my last post on this subject.
Yup. But everyone will think you are me.
That pretty well covers it Lazara. I would only add the concept of unintended (and/or intended) consequences of such incitement and rioting. Their behavior is dangerous.