Community Post

Greater Mount Baker Baptist Church allowing criminal activities at 25th Ave & King St

Two years ago the Greater Mount Baker Baptist Church invited the Nickelsville tent city to camp on their vacant lot behind their church which, is next to a vacant house that they have chosen to stop renting out.

Our once typical neighborhood is now on the radar screen of criminals and prostitutes, who gather in groups and loiter for hours, intimidating the families who live in the area. The neighborhood now has to watch the criminals stand in front of the church’s vacant house selling drugs and sex.

The criminals use the property that the vacant house is on to have sex and sell drugs, yet the church has refused to put a renter in this perfectly rentable house. By putting a renter in the house, the criminals would not have the ability to hang out, in and around, the dark vacant house with anonymity.

In our opinion, the church invited the problem into the neighborhood and, are now neglecting to follow through with simple solutions, such as putting up exterior lights and renting the house.

The church is aware of the situation, since neighbors have been calling them for quite a while to complain about the problem, but for some reason, they don’t care enough to just put some exterior lights on their vacant house and rent it out.

What do we have to do, picket the church, to get them to do something?

25 thoughts on “Greater Mount Baker Baptist Church allowing criminal activities at 25th Ave & King St

  1. …calling the Police when you see crimes taking place? Instead of calling the Church?

    seems pretty basic to me.

  2. We have called the police many times and of course this is a low priority for them. By the time they come out, they are not able to witness the crimes and therefore can’t do anything about it.

  3. Sally, Keep the pressure on them. It is amazing what poor neighbors several of our local churches are. I’ll try to extend my rounds out there once in a while.

  4. Contact the Seattle Neightborhood Group on Yesler. You and your neighbors can have the house abated by the city and resold to people who will live there. Contact them to find out how!

  5. “Our once typical neighborhood is now on the radar screen of criminals and prostitutes”

    I’m not connecting the same dots as you are. Your block has been hot for more than 2 years and tent city and 1 vacant house is not making it any hotter than it already was. Besides, did it occur to you that the house may not be in a condition to rent? Have you gone inside and checked it out? Do you know how the wiring is? I’m just guessing here but when you say “they have chosen” to not rent the house I gotta ask, why is that? You don’t seem to really know.
    I do agree exterior lights are great at deterring some things but there are street lights on that block and you and your neighbors could increase your lights if you felt it would help.

  6. Your comments and questions are understandable since you have probably not been living in the immediate area for 5+ years and are probably not familiar with the layout of the block.

    The church owns the west side of the entire block. Before the tent city, the criminals were not really aware that there was an entire block that had nothing on it other than a vacant lot, and a vacant house.

    There never used to be people just hanging around the vacant house selling drugs and sex but in the past year it has become unsafe and unbearable.

    Since the church owns everything on that side of the street, there is no way for us neighbors to increase the lighting and the one city street light is on the other side of the street.

    The vacant house is very rentable. It has been rented in recent times. The church says that they are looking for a renter but they have been saying that for a very long time.

    I don’t intend this to be a judgment about the tent city. This is a problem now and the church owns the entire block and they are allowing it to be a dark and vacant area for crimes to take place (which is hard to believe since it is literally happening adjacent to their church).

    We are just asking the church to do their part and be a good neighbor, not an apathetic neighbor.

  7. I simply ask that people maintain their properties to some reasonable standard. Whether it by church, bank, slumlord, or owner occupant. Were American’s living in one of the most beautiful landscapes on earth. How low will we stoop. How low will we be dragged under by careless scum that fail to fill in the cracks. There is a vacant home behind my house and every damn day there is people walking in to the yard to piss, shoot up, sort through stolen goods, looking over the fence for something to steal. Some times you people as “Grumbo, Why you so pissed all the time”. It’s because looking at losers pissing all over the place pisses me off. I certainly expect better from the house of God.

  8. I believe it is still possible to pay City Light a modest rental ($7 or more a month) and they will install streetlights on poles in your neighborhood. Decades ago I did that for an empty pole across the street from my house, and eventually handed it over to the condos that got built there (after the drug houses burnt down). See their price schedule:

    http://www.seattle.gov/light/accounts/rates/ac5_rt2k24.htm#T

  9. That is a great suggestion but unfortunately, there are no poles to attach a light to on the problem side of the street. The closest pole is on the other side of the street and already has a light on it.

  10. Sally112 (and others who may live in Colman),

    This property falls within the Colman Neighborhood Association boundaries (south of Jackson, between Judkins Park and MLK, down to the lid). If you’re not connected to the CNA ListServ or the Colman NextDoor site, you should be and I’d be happy to get you that information, please email me at knox.gardner at gmail.

    Our monthly meeting actually happens tomorrow night, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 7. As one of the major concerns has been the increased dealing, prostitution and increased gun violence over the past year, centered around Parnell’s, you can imagine, that your interest in this related gathering spot would be very welcome and timely. It’s on our neighbor radar for sure. Obviously a lot of traffic from 25th and King to 23rd and Dearborn and back again.

    Here’s the information for that meeting: and just a note, that the church meeting room is actually accessed from the back, and to get there you need to go down the cul-de-sac and into their parking lot.

    AGAIN: BOTH SPD AND THE CITY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE WILL BE AT THIS MEETING.

    Last month’s meeting focused on getting a CEPTED review done around the 23rd and Dearborn intersection so we can assist the police, parks department, and school district come up with a plan to fix access/site lines into park.

    ++++++

    Dear Colman Neighbors,

    Here is a reminder about our monthly neighborhood meeting in March. Hope you will join us:

    Wednesday, March 7
    Monthly CNA meeting
    6:30 p.m.
    Shiloh Baptist Church (23rd and Dearborn)
    Larry and Yolanda Pope have very generously offered to host our neighborhood meeting at the church. This month, we have several guests joining us with some important updates.
    * George Staggers from the Central Area Development Association will discuss the future of the Promenade shopping center at 23rd and Jackson.
    * The Seattle Neighborhood Group and Seattle University grad student Alexa Larsen will report about the progress of their CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design) review.
    * Update about Dearborn corridor safety strategies with an opportunity to discuss next steps with the Seattle Police Department and City Attorney’s Office.
    * Planning for our annual Spring Clean Event in April.

  11. you have probably not been living in the immediate area for 5+ years and are probably not familiar with the layout of the block.

    …ummm, no. I am completely familiar with that block. But since we are being patronizing, there is also this cool thing called Google maps (street view) where anyone can look and see exactly where you are talking about.

    The church owns the west side of the entire block. Yes, they do. Before the tent city, the criminals were not really aware that there was an entire block that had nothing on it other than a vacant lot, and a vacant house.

    Pump the brakes! The neighborhood criminals didn’t know about the vacant lot and house until tent city??? I wonder how they overlooked that spot right in the middle of their so called territory and right next to the grocery store parking lot. Crazy!

    There never used to be people just hanging around the vacant house selling drugs and sex but in the past year it has become unsafe and unbearable.

    Criminal activity has quite a long history around that block and I understand that it sucks when the activity increases.

    Since the church owns everything on that side of the street, there is no way for us neighbors to increase the lighting and the one city street light is on the other side of the street.

    I know you think the police are a step behind but when you call in criminal activity you are observing EVERY time you see it, you will be increasing the lighting on the street. There will be more blue and red lights and that does have an impact. I suppose you could all get outdoor lights and strategically aim them in that direction but that is sorta going the extra mile or ten. Have you guys tried blasting classical music out your windows?

    The vacant house is very rentable. It has been rented in recent times. The church says that they are looking for a renter but they have been saying that for a very long time.

    Because it has been rented recently does not mean it is “very rentable”. Besides, is it really up to you to decide what the church should do with the house it owns? There are so many reasons why a property owner may not want to rent a property at any given time I don’t get why you are so stuck on your desire put some renters right in the middle of this. This is a police enforcement issue.

    I don’t intend this to be a judgment about the tent city. This is a problem now and the church owns the entire block and they are allowing it to be a dark and vacant area for crimes to take place (which is hard to believe since it is literally happening adjacent to their church).

    There is so much vacant space on that side of the street it is bizarre that you think one set of renters and some lights will truly fix things. The church has little to no activity for the majority of the week. Let’s say the martyrs/renters have jobs and go to work every day and go to sleep at night. Wow, you still have a whole side of the street with very little going on. The same way 23/Union folks can’t force J. Mueller to make development decisions based on their issues with local crime, you can’t force the church to change their property to your liking. Sometimes that’s a great thing and sometimes it sucks.

    We are just asking the church to do their part and be a good neighbor, not an apathetic neighbor.

    Just because the church is not responding to your demands does not make them an apathetic neighbor. You come across as adversarial towards the church but that does not mean you are really trying to be like that. Perhaps the church is just apathetic to your particular demands or the way that you express them. Something to think about.

  12. The church is a menace to society. They must be banished. We would rather have another corner market than a “church” that cares nothing for its community.

  13. Good idea andy. So long as the lights don’t interfere with the observatory – I’m for it.

  14. I missed this thread until the morning or else I would have been at the meeting. There are two churches that sit north and south of this empty lot. Since folks moved out of the house the condition of the sidewalk, street and lot have gone from bad to worse. There is garbage, unraked leaves, broken glass, etc. I’ve stopped walking down that street due to the folks who hang out outside the house.
    I often wonder how two churches can sit on either side of all of this and do nothing? Except on Sunday mornings it seems there is no one even in either building. Why are they not more invested in their neighborhood?

  15. If you are concerned about the vacant areas not being cared for volunteer to have a neighborhood day to clean them up. Be part of the solution and not add to the problem. If you don’t like living close to a church, you should not have purchased a home in that area.

    As for tent city, it has operated around my home near Cherry off and on for years. I found the people who lived there to be respectful and for the most part the residents police their own “city”. The issue to me seems to be a lack of compassion on your part. It’s okay for tent city to provide shelter for homeless citizens as long as it’s not in your backyard. The privilege that stems from this article and the additional comments that followed make me ill to my stomach.

    If illegal activity is happening it is because the police are allowing it to occur. By ignoring drug dealing and prostitution, law enforcement agencies are then given the opportunity temporarily close or confiscate the property that belongs to the church using the Washington State Drug Abatement Act. By not responding to calls from the church OR neighbors, the police are, in essence, allowing criminal activity to thrive AND can then use that same reason for seizing the property. It truly is a two-edged sword.

    What this sounds like to me is a bunch of racist white interlopers who are upset because the African Americans who own the church property, who have lived in the neighborhood longer than a majority of you, will not “kiss your behinds” and say “yes sir boss” at your demands. Get over yourselves and try “being” a good neighbor before you accuse others of not doing so………

  16. You were on a roll there with truth about containment zone issues and double neighborhood standards until you hit the race card button. I agree with you, abate the church if they do nothing about the police refusing to apply the law equally. Lean on the church and they will lean on the city. KUOW had a call in on police action in south and south east Seattle today. Every caller complined about lack of respose and the double standard. This fully supports the containment zone concern we need to notice and work to undo. From Lauralhurst to Judkine to Rainier Beach, the law and response to crime needs to be equal. It is not, they contain problems to one area, to selected areas south of the ship canal.

  17. If you live south of Jackson, you should be on NextDoor Colman or the CNA CHAT. Either will keep you better updated on the issues we’re working on to address this hot spot, other neighborhood safety issues, and well as you know: lost cats, stuff for sale, people look for plumber recommendations, etc.

    Please email me at [email protected] and I will make sure you get on those email list.

  18. POW, you are the one with the patronizing tone. You sound like a dick in your written word. Just FYI from a bystandar empathizing with Sally.

  19. You know, I see no discussion, let alone possible ideas for solutions, as to why these issues exist — drugs, prostitution, homelessness — there’s a larger story at work here that needs to be addressed, and no house being rented or street lights being put up will solve it.

    But, most of you uppity white people won’t ever understand it and think that the fix to such issues is to throw people in jail or force them out — and let someone else deal with them. #fail.

  20. This published article is obviously biased and unbalanced. As if any Church worth its salt is going to condone crime. Come on Now!

  21. This is a community post. Anyone can post to CDNews. In fact, we encourage people to do so. Posts reflect the opinions of the authors, most of whom are community members and not necessarily trained journalists attempting to use unbiased practices.

  22. Perhaps the church should do something about it, then. Like install motion sensor lighting to deter prostitution and drug dealing. Or hire a security guard. It is their property – they should DO something about it being a magnet for crime else they are anything but good community members.

  23. I don’t know if you’re East Precinct or South, but either way you gotta get them involved. And that means calling A LOT. It means taking down license plates of cars that you think are involved with drug dealing or prostitution. It’s a lot of work.

    But you’re not going to get the help you need without doing that work. It sounds from previous comments like the Colman NA is aware of the issues; I’d highly recommend working with them, as organized efforts are a great way to make things happen (as opposed to individuals calling the church to complain).

    The last thing I’d say, even though I know it can be uncomfortable, is be out on the street. If you have dog(s), walk them. Let folks know you’re there and you see them.

  24. Church with reh brought prositutions, drugs and alocohol from Garfield Community Center to E Cherry Street are common things during the day light, when people getting home from work, and around 3am. This community is still controling by gangsters, oldest folks whose blinded for years, and careless police department!