We’re still working on details of a reported collision between a pedestrian and a car at 18th and Yesler. Reader ryanmurphy reported the following:
word from a neighbor is it was Volvo vs. Ped and the Volvo driver was crying hysterically after it happened. Doesn’t look good.
We will update as we get more information.
UPDATE 9:53 a.m. – Seattle police confirmed there was an accident between a car and an elderly female pedestrian. She was transported to the hospital, but her injuries are not life-threatening. Both fire and police responded to the scene at 8:15 this morning. The traffic collision investigation squad is on the scene. They are typically called to major accidents. Yesler is shut down from 17th to 18th and should be reopened as soon as they complete the traffic investigation. As is standard, the driver was screened for impairment, but no more details were available, since the investigation is still ongoing.
I hope that the City takes this as an opportunity to do something about the cars that fly down Yesler in total disregard of the pedestrians trying to cross the street. I’ve almost been hit a few times, and seen it happen to others. While the crosswalk at 20th helps, I think we need a better solution.
…as well as drivers.
I go down Yesler to and from work in Leschi every day. It is probably the most stressful part of my commute because many pedestrians there seem to have a blatant disregard for traffic rules and their own safety. I don’t expect this to be popular with most people here, but I consider myself a safe pedestrian as well as a safe driver. There are multiple sides to pedestrian, bicycle, and vehicle safety and I think it’s unfair to absolve oneself of any responsibility in making roads safe.
I drive pretty safely, and I drive even slower on that stretch until I hit Boren and things are more predictable. Just this morning, some guy walked out in front of my car in front of the library. I suppose he thinks his principles weigh more than my vehicle, but I’m glad I saw him and was able to stop. Bear in mind, I was not speeding and I was pretty alert because I know that is the behavior in that area.
Pedestrians have rights and laws to protect them, but they are most protected when they abide within a system of mutual expectations. Human reaction times aren’t that fast, so doesn’t it make some sense to put the odds in one’s favor and think twice before waltzing into traffic?
I’m all for making sure people don’t get run over by cars. Since I’ve lived here, I’ve been exposed to a Seattle culture that seems assume that if you’re on foot or on a bicycle, heaven forbid if a law or ordinance should ever apply to you. I don’t think it contributes well to mutual safety for any of us.
Stepping down off my soapbox now, I really do hope the lady is ok. The accident seemed to be near a cross-walk when I saw it this morning. I don’t know the details, but this does seem like a case that shouldn’t have happened.
How do you treat pedestrians at intersections with no crosswalk?
You are definitely an anomaly, but appreciated for keeping an eye out for those of us not in big metal boxes.
There are many mornings, when I am waiting to cross at 20th and Yesler, when the car heading east will stop to let me go, but the cars driving west will simply fly by, at what appears to be an alarming speed. I understand we all have places to go, and all need to follow the rules, but I think something really should be done about the traffic speeds on Yesler.
David, I’m grateful that you’re at least considering the impact of your vehicle, and being cautious on the road. That’s a motorist’s responsibility, and as gds says, you are unfortunately an anomaly.
Having said that – how do you define a system of mutual expectations, exactly? The law is clear that a motorist is obligated to stop for a pedestrian who’s trying to cross at any intersection, marked crosswalk or not. Should folks cross between intersections in an unsafe manner? No. Should motorists follow the law at intersections? Yes. Should pedestrians make their intent clear when they want to cross? Yes.
The flip side of having the car, and being warm and dry, is that you’re moving a whole ton of metal (as the woman driving the Volvo in this story found out). That ups your responsibility, even when pedestrians behave badly.
I’ll end by saying that I’ve used the EPCPC meetings in the past as a way to remind East Precinct folks about speeding and failure to yield. They did a great project on MLK last year to go after both types of bad behavior. I’d love to see more.
@joanna: Seems like a simple question begging a simple answer. I don’t have any interest in killing a human being, so I stop.
Now, to perhaps expand on what you may have been getting at, if it’s a pedestrian giving me a fair chance to treat them and other drivers fairly, I stop and let them by.
We have a lot of unmarked intersections in Belltown. I live there and walk around a lot, so I’m aware of this. Generally, if I see a person waiting at the intersection and traffic is slow and I’m not in a hurry, I stop in the middle of the road and wait. Bear in mind, this is only if I’ve analyzed the situation and determined that I wouldn’t be disrupting traffic nor assisting the pedestrian in putting themselves in danger.
If you walk out in front of my car without checking for my eye contact, making sure I’ve seen you, and waiting for some indication that I’m going to stop, odds are I’m going to have to slam on my brakes and I’ll probably glare at you.
Suppose I turned that question on its head. I’m a responsible driver and I follow the rules. I’d like to think I’m doing my part to keep the road safe. For sake of argument, please allow me to place you in the shoes of the type of pedestrian against which I raise my complaint.
How are you treating me by imposing your will on me as a driver when you disregard the rules? How are you treating me when you willfully create a stressful and terrifying situation by jumping out in front of my car? I’d argue, you’re not treating me very well at all, all for the sake of saving yourself 30-60 seconds.
@gds
Yeah, I like the marked pedestrians side more West on Yesler. There are no lights, but generally cars stop if they see a pedestrian waiting at the cross-walk next to the big yellow sign. It’s the pedestrians that come out of nowhere and glare at me for daring to drive home that I don’t like.
@JohnS, et. al.
I accidentally replied to the wrong place. I think I’m bad at neighborlogs comments. See my reply below.
I think I follow your rules for engagement for the most part as well. And if I am understanding you correctly, I think you’re also referring to people who walk across the street in the middle of the block, jaywalking, assuming you are going to stop for them because they’re a pedestrian and they know you don’t want to hit them. This is the “I own the road” mentality that I see around the neighborhood a lot. It isn’t safe, it isn’t responsible, and it needs to be addressed.
That said, I am going to guess that this elderly lady was not walking across the road in the middle of the block, taking her sweet time and assuming everyone’s going to stop for her. If I may generalize, older citizens seem to have more respect for crosswalks and responsible pedestrian behavior. I really hope she and the driver are okay and that people take note of the danger.
From what I could see, she was in an intersection with a cross-walk. I didn’t get a chance to look too closely when I navigated around the blocked off area.
I do mostly mean jaywalkers, but we have lots of people walking against the light in intersections down 2nd avenue in Belltown. Those lights are timed to move cars down the road, so I find that equally irresponsible. Again, one rarely has to wait more than 60 seconds before crossing. I’ll often walk across 2nd against a no-walk sign, but that’s because it’s a long straight road with little elevation change and I can see cars coming.
I think all the east/west roads Union, Yesler, Jackson, specifically have become increasing dangerous. It’s the drivers and sure, sometimes it’s the pedestrians, aren’t paying attention .. and people drive very, very fast and many don’t stop for pedestrians in crosswalks and also at corners. It is a huge problem for those of us who walk as well as those of us who drive as it forces pedestrians to foist themselves out into traffic. The city needs to address this in an aggressive way.
I walk my dog every morning when people are going to work. I cross Jackson and Yesler at 30th and 29th. It is very rare for cars to stop for me when I am clearly waiting to cross at the intersection.
I have mixed feelings about this. If it’s pouring and cold, it can mke me a bit crabby. But if a line of cars going uphill stop for me, they all burn extra gas as they resume movement. My dog and I, standing on the corner, do not have much of a carbon footprint! So what’s better?
Due to the accident this morning Yesler’s traffic was sent down Fir. Drivers often fly down my street whenever Yesler’s traffic slows down. There’s a total lack of consideration for the people living here. Driver’s be a little more respectful and consider that our neighborhood is just as important as your’s.
-So glad to here that this woman is OK. My husband and I were very upset this morning. Because it happened right at the time children were heading to school we thought that maybe a child had been struck and seriously injured.
As a pedestrian this reminds me that I should be extra cautious and just assume that no one will actually slow down to allow me to cross.
absolutely – people walking against a light at an intersection are still jaywalking and being irresponsible and unsafe. it’s so irritating! on the flip side, i work downtown and see cars running red lights daily. i have almost been hit numerous times. thankfully a more watchful pedestrian has pulled me back or called to get my attention when someone was running a red light. ridiculous. they’re (literally) going to kill someone.
Add E.Cherry to that list. E. Union is where I most often encounter vehicles that do not yield to pedestrians. Eye contact does not seem to help in many cases. Sometimes the drivers seem to take that as assurance you have seen that they are not going to stop.
There are law-abiding drivers who almost always stop even when others are being rude and unlawful.
In our neighborhoods we need to demand that Seattle strive to be more like our beloved, mythical and aspirational city, Copenhagen.
“Most Copenhagen’s city streets have a speed limit of 30 to 40 km/h (19 to 25 mph). Even more impressive, there are blocks in some neighborhoods with limits as low as 15 km/h (9 mph) where cars must yield to residents. Still other areas are “shared spaces” where cars, bikes and pedestrians mix freely with no stress, usually thanks to traffic calming measures (speed bumps are popular), textured road surfaces and common sense.”
http://www.streetfilms.org/copenhagens-car-free-streets-and-
I think London also has slower arterial and residential street speeds.
Unfortunately SDOT seems to think that traffic calming only comes from expensive concrete and a long drawn out process. Simply slowing cars down is the way to go…
Currently, state law mandates that municipalities carry out lengthy studies for every speed limit reduction. For those interested in this, there is a bill in the state legislature to allow municipalities to set speed limits as low as 20 without much red tape. I wrote about that at Seattle Bike Blog: http://seattlebikeblog.com/2011/01/18/bicycle-alliance-pushe
@ David… I’m not sure you are as responsible as you think you are…
Really the only obligation that a pedestrian has is to not run out in front of you when there is no chance you can stop in time…. so a pedestrian who walks out in front of you and you have time to stop hasn’t done anything wrong – even if you don’t like having to slow down or stop..
It is *your* responsibility to *always* be looking out for pedestrians at intersections and if they are off of the sidewalk you need to stop. An intersection does not have to have either a light or painted lines to be a legal crosswalk. Crossing in the middle of the block isn’t actually illegal, but if you choose to do it, you as a ped have to yield to cars (but no this doesn’t mean is OK to run people over).
Does this mean I advocate just walking out in front of cars…. of course not. Being right and dead is still dead. I know that most drivers do not drive all that safely, most are speeding and aren’t looking and I’ll even give them that conditions can sometimes make it difficult to see pedestrians. You always have to be careful and making eye contact is a good way to start. On the other hand, don’t complain when you get a dirty look if you don’t stop or act like the pedestrian doesn’t belong there, because technically you are the one in the wrong.
Here’s the actual RCW if you are interested…. IMHO few people follow this rule. I’m with jackson – we should lower speed limit on most of our roads.
[i]RCW 46.61.235
Crosswalks.
(1) The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway within an unmarked or marked crosswalk when the pedestrian or bicycle is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section “half of the roadway” means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel, and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway.
(2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.[/i]
This question isn’t meant to be facetious, I promise.
“Crossing in the middle of the block isn’t actually illegal, but if you choose to do it, you as a ped have to yield to cars”
Then what is illegal? What constitutes Jay walking? Can all Jay walking be thrown away then or fought?
JPR
You sound like you have never been to Copenhagen or London or even studied traffic there. I have and your show a great misunderstanding of the urban context of thoses cities. Please don’t mislead people by being a poser.
@niroha
Read this regarding crossing in the middle of the block:
http://www.seattlepi.com/transportation/414017_gettingthere1
There is also this law dictating a pedestrian’s behavior at a non-intersection.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.240
When it says the pedestrian must yield the right of way, it means there is no right to keep the right of way– that is, just walking out in the middle of the street.
Moreover, point 4 states that if you’re on a block with a marked intersection at each end, you “shall not cross at any place except in a marked crosswalk”.
This is a good summary of Washington pedestrian laws
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/walk/laws.htm
There is also this law governing a pedestrian’s obligation to obey a walk-sign:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.060
There is a clause in there that says a driver should wait for a pedestrian that has entered the crosswalk *before* the light has changed to “stop.” If a pedestrian has decided to forgo this obligation, it’s still a really good idea to not run them over, but they are not legally correct, nor do they have some right to ignore that. Drivers need to compensate for their behavior, which has kind of been my argument all day.
The point here is that pedestrians don’t seem to be as carefree and unencumbered as ‘cd biker’ might suggest.
It is quite true that driver’s should exercise care to not hurt pedestrians ( http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.245), but what helps drivers do that is pedestrians following the laws.
The law doesn’t really define the distance at which it “is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop,” and that can create a slippery slope. We don’t all have the same reaction time, and road conditions are not always the same. Moreover, pedestrians aren’t always wearing bright, flashy colors, further affecting the reaction time and distance. So it would behove a pedestrian to figure out what the likely reaction time would be and act accordingly.
So what’s the point? Again, the overarching idea is “don’t run over people” for drivers and “don’t make it hard for drivers not to run you over” for pedestrians. Pedestrians seem to quite quickly forget the latter half of that equation.
Now, ‘cd biker’, either you failed to actually read everything I’ve written today or you’re making a baseless claim about how responsible I am. I think it would be nice if you were to resolve one or the other.
Isn’t there traffic lights at that intersection? Did someone run the light?
The law is pretty simple for the driver… stop for pedestrians…. in MARKED & UNMARKED crosswalks. Not if you feel like. Or if you are not in a hurry. STOP. For pedestrians in crosswalks.
My sister & her husband in Beaverton OR BOTH got ticketed in a “failure to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks STING” and gladly took the tickets and the lesson.
Seattle PD could seriously raise awareness with periodic emphasis patrols and ticketing @ most dangerous intersections.
Chances are good that i could get one of those tickets.. but would probably deserve it.
reprinting the law here for emphasis (thanks cd biker for the concrete info)
[i]RCW 46.61.235
Crosswalks.
(1) The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian or bicycle… cross the roadway within an unmarked or marked crosswalk when the pedestrian or bicycle is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section “half of the roadway” means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel, and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway.
(2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.[/i]
David expresses the condition of this area quite well, and I agree that we can not and should not automatically assume that the blame for the injuries resides with the Volvo driver. Though we really do not yet know the actual cause of the accident, as in any such case, our hearts automatically go out to the injured pedestrian ( as they should ), but I would hope that our compassion can extend to this distraut Volvo driver as well. Hopefully this insident will be sufficient cause for the city to study this area for much needed improvements for all modes of current travel and pedestrians useing these streets. Again, my prayers for all injured parties!
I drive from MLK and Yesler to 6th and Yesler twice a day most days, and 4 times a day on Thursdays and Fridays. I have done this for 15 years. I echo what David said so well, “I’ve been exposed to a Seattle culture that seems assume that if you’re on foot or on a bicycle, heaven forbid if a law or ordinance should ever apply to you. I don’t think it contributes well to mutual safety for any of us.” If someone is standing at a corner waiting to cross, I stop, no matter what. This is because my brother was hit crossing the street 20 years ago, suffered a brain injury, and made me acutely aware of how breakable the human body is. I’m careful. I don’t want to hit anyone with my car. But the jaywalkers and bikers give me heart palpitations. FREQUENTLY as I near the library, jaywalkers – mostly young people. As I pass the old folks’ home, jaywalkers – mostly ladies in ethnic garb jaywalking after seeing their kids off on the bus. When I get to projects, jaywalkers – mostly elderly ladies (one who was hit by a car recently), and kids. At the Yesler overpass, jaywalkers galore – many of them employees from Harborview parking on the overpass then jaywalking across it. And all the way down Yesler there are bicyclists don’t obey traffic laws at all! They’re on the wrong side of the road, at night, wearing all black, or going against the light, weaving in and out. It’s like a human obstacle course. I agree with David that there is a bizarre culture of “I’m not in a car, I dare you to run me over.” It’s insane.
Purty sure David was talking about people crossing at places other than marked or unmarked crosswalks. Like, wandering right the hell out in the middle of the road nowhere near an intersection. It happens all day and all night on Yesler.
hey street guy,
i have been to both London (many times for business and pleasure) and to Copenhagen. but i do not understand your comment about being a poser or misleading people.
i am merely suggesting that we drive too fast and by slowing cars down we will create a more pedestrian-friendly, and perhaps safer, city. at minimal cost.
so what exactly have you learned from your studies of London and Copenhagen?
JPR
Your facts are wrong your answer makes it obvious that you are also a liar.
@joanna
EVERY intersection has a crosswalk in Washington State, unless there is a sign up stating otherwise. It doesn’t have to be painted (and it usually isn’t).
I would expect David is complaining about mid-block crossers, and jaywalkers at signalized intersections. I was a delivery driver for a long time, and there are certain jaywalking habits that are just disruptive and dangerous to everyone. When you’re going the speed limit and flashing your eyes back and forth between all the upcoming intersections, a jaywalker strolling out from between two parked cars is the worst thing. We’ve already got more than enough places that we have to look at.
Another, slightly less obvious but even more dangerous jaywalking habit is crossing JUST DOWN from the corner. A couple of car lengths, maybe 20 or 30 feet from the intersection. It’s just far enough down the street that turning vehicles cannot see you, but not far enough for them to be able to stop. Drivers are looking AT the corners, AT the crosswalks. We look, we slow, we see a clear crosswalk, we start turning and speeding up again, and WHOA JAYWALKER.
My personal street crossing method is simple. I go to the corner, take one step into the lane, make eye contact with oncoming drivers, and proceed across the lane when one appears to be stopping. Rinse and repeat for every additional lane.
I don’t get the bizarre culture of “I’m in a car I have the right to get where I’m going as fast as humanly possible so get out of my *^#$ way…”
Yeah, there are a few laws for pedestrians.
Don’t cross against a light, don’t cross if an intersection is specifically marked no crossing, don’t cross mid-block if there are signal lights at both ends (otherwise crossing mid-block is allowable, if you wait for traffic) and don’t run out in front of someone who couldn’t possibly stop.
There’s lots of common sense.
make eye contact with drivers, use extra caution at night/when its raining/when the view of the road is obstructed – when ever visibility might be low and don’t expect drivers to ever follow the rules…..
But *none* of this takes away the onus from drivers to realize that they need to understand that they are piloting a deadly weapon and that they have a HUGE amount of responsibility on their shoulders to be extremely alert and extremely careful. Just remember you have no right to go as fast as possible and every responsibility to do it safely – no matter *what* anyone else is doing, legal, illegal, irritating- whatever, when you get in a car you need realize that they aren’t the dangerous ones… you are…. so slow down, calm down, get off your phone, take the latte/burger/etc. out of your face, stop doing your makeup/reading/shaving/etc. and pay attention to what you are doing.
RCW 46.61.245
Drivers to exercise care.
(1) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this chapter every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian upon any roadway….
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you that drivers need to slow down and be careful. I think what others are saying is this is a two way problem – drivers AND pedestrians need to be less careless and more aware of their surroundings.
CD Biker – I am a pedestrian, a driver and a spring/summer slowpoke-middleaged-bike-to-worker. Your nasty, “I’m an angry bicyclist” response to drivers (who state that they do obey the speed limit and stop for pedestrians) sharing their angst about jaywalkers and cyclists who put themselves and others in danger, fuels the stereotype about bicyclists in this town. Posters say “I’m driving carefully but man do those jaywalkers rattle me!” and you respond with “get off your phone, take the latte/burger out of your face, stop doing your makeup/reading/shaving/etc. and pay attention to what you are doing.” To that I say, typical angry cyclist who likely does not obey they rules of the road because he has a massive chip on his shoulder.
Your reading too much into my screen name… I could have used anything and only used that one because I’ve used it before… To you I say sorry, but your assumptions are totally incorrect – For one cycling and cyclists never came into my discussion (even if other people have tried to bring them in) and have nothing to do with it. For two I obey the rules of the road – no matter what I’m doing, cycling, walking. For three I am not a man…
I just won’t be apologetic for pointing out to anyone that drivers carry more burden for keeping the roads safe because they are the cause of the danger in the first place. The oh so careful OP’s are the ones who started in on the “bizarre culture of hit me if you dare”….. all I did was turn that around. Sorry, but IMHO if anyone feels that they are in daily danger of hitting someone, perhaps they should rethink driving at all….
I totally disagree that drivers carry MORE burden in keeping the roads and the people who walk them safe. The onus is on everyone who shares the road, be it pedestrians, bikers, drivers or pogo stick riders.
Cars are not the cause of danger. If I am driving and someone bolts out in front of me and doesn’t leave me enough reaction time to come to a stop and i hit them that wouldn’t automatically be my fault just because I am the one in the car. It doesn’t mean I was distracted, driving fast, talking on my cell, etc. It means someone on foot made a REALLY bad and unsafe choice.
If a responsible driver feels a certain road is unsafe because of so many irresponsible and distracted pedestrians, I don’t think the answer is to give up driving and give the road to the walkers. That’s rewarding bad behavior. Instead I’d maybe suggest some ticketing to remind people (drivers, walkers, pogostick riders, you get the idea) that following the rules and being safe is a great idea.
People need to take responsibility for their actions. No one is saying drivers shouldn’t be more aware. All we are saying is that everyone needs to take responsibility for having safe street smarts.
why, when I am not running unexpectedly into traffic, I am not jumping unexpectedly into traffic and I am at an intersection obviously waiting to cross, do you, driver, look at me and continue through the intersection. Why do you continue even though the vehicles in the other lane just stopped? Why do you rear end the driver who stopped or illegally sweep around that drive almost running me down? Are you looking to be law abiding and not hurt anyone, or are you just in a hurry and being a bully? Laws are suppose to help us through these times, right?
Well I’m afraid you are just wrong….
Drivers DO carry more of the burden, drivers DO carry more of the responsibility, drivers ARE the dangerous party. – I repeat – RCW 46.61.245
Drivers to exercise care.
(1) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this chapter every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian upon any roadway….
why do I get the feeling the folks who *accelerate* if you step off of the sidewalk have never read this rule….
Drivers have to be licensed, drivers are much more regulated, drivers have to prove their ability to be responsible through testing and can lose their privileges if they demonstrate incompetence or irresponsibility.
The general public that is allowed outside on the other hand can be juvenile, mentally incompetent, physically disabled and may not entirely capable of respecting the rules of the road without legal penalties….
I won’t argue that occasionally there are accidents that would not have been avoidable even with a careful and diligent driver, but not most of them. Most of them would have been completely preventable if the driver had been paying closer attention or going slower.
I’m with the poster below – why exactly is it that I can stand in the parking lane waving an umbrella and no one bothers to stop…… Really can’t see me, really? How is it that someone managed to run over my husband’s foot making a right on red – could it be that they didn’t stop *and* they didn’t look…. I’m with jacksonplace – speed limits should be lowered and *enforced*. I’m tired of the attitude that because you are in a car you are somehow more important than everyone else.
Stop demonizing driver’s and realize that pedestrians and cyclists too, carry the burden of not being ridiculously reckless and putting everying in danger. Stop wandering out in the road like a crackhead and cross at the corner. Stop walking down the middle of the road to be cool. Stop darting across the street in to traffic because you’re too lazy to cross at the corner. And for God’s sake stop riding your bike, at night, while wearing all black, on the wrong side of the street! Jeez, it’s common sense.
Don’t be ridiculous…. peds *never* put drivers in danger… they may put themselves in danger, but I defy you to come up with one example of a time where a driver was physically damaged in a collision with a pedestrian… And please no hypothetical scenarios where a driver swerves to miss an errant jaywalker and hits a bus full of special olympics participants, which bursts into flames…. I get it you are afraid that you might be fallible enough to kill someone…. but that is entirely different from them “putting everyone in danger” – stop trying to blame others for your fears and shortcomings.
I for one don’t see an epidemic of peds wandering aimlessly in the streets…. no indeed they are usually hightailing it across the street because no one will stop for them… People are usually genuinely *surprised* when a driver does stop them. People are overall pretty cognizant of their vulnerability to a 2,000lb vehicle and even if they do jaywalk so they don’t generally dwaddle and the biggest danger is to themselves…… OTOH I do see people driving aggressively, distracted and disobeying traffic laws all of the time… and even if it is only some of them, the potential for damage to others is great. If you can’t accept the responsibility of driving get out from behind the wheel….
Anyway I never said that pedestrians don’t need to be careful – I realize that there are situations that it becomes hard to see people and drivers are extra isolated, so pedestrians need to be very careful – but for their own sake…. not yours…. Drivers need to be careful to protect everyone else – Like it or not, it is different.
If you want to for God’s sake its commons sense things – slow down, especially when its dark and rainy, turn on your headlights – yes even a 2000lb car can be nearly invisible on a gray morning with no lights on, actually stop at stop signs rather than rolling out into the middle of the crosswalk (like 99.9% of drivers…. no this isn’t legal!!!), stop, stop, stop, stop, stop BEFORE you make a right on red (there is no such thing as right through red!!!!!), remember that driving is not a right, but a privilege.
cd biker I think instead of just going around in circles and repeating the same bullet points we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree on who is responsible for keeping the streets safe. I think everyone shares that responsibility, you think it’s just the drivers. Repeat x 100.
I walk a lot and drive a little. I see stupidity and recklessness everywhere.
Imagine… I get a bit zealous because drivers kill people…. how silly of me…. I should just shut up because you disagree and I’m not going to change your mind… sheesh.
Feel free to disagree, still doesn’t make you right, I don’t think you even understand what I am saying as your characterization of me is incorrect. I never said pedestrians have no responsibilities at all and should just do whatever they feel like – just that drivers bear much, much more as they are the hazardous party. This isn’t my opinion, it isn’t what I think… it is written into our laws….
The point was that, in ADDITION to people who DRIVE recklessly, pedestrians, and some cyclists, particularly on the stretch of Yesler mentioned, jaywalk, dart out in to traffic daily, and ride unsafely. It’s a cultural habit on Yesler for whatever reason, shared by everyone from the kids in front of the library on 23rd and Yesler, to the kids getting off the school bus at 20th and Yesler, to the asian ladies going to a nearly invisible church across from the elementary school (and jaywalking in hordes) to the ladies in head coverings on 18th and Yesler, to the elderly people at the projects where Broadway meets Yesler (I’ve seen 2 old people hit jaywalking there, in front of the community center), to the Harborview employees jaywalking on the overpass. Everyone knows, CDbiker, that a car can kill people. Even without your repeated lecturing, we already knew that. Those of who ALSO agree that there is a big problem on Yesler with folks NOT in cars happen to include people like me. I have never had a traffic ticket in my life, have never even been pulled over for that matter, and I drive safely because yes, even without your ranting, I am aware that if I am not vigilantly watching for reckless pedestrians and bikers who can’t obey the law, I could indeed kill someone with my car, or injure my children inside my car trying to avoid these inconsiderate jaywalkers and wrong-way bikers. Being aware of that is not a shortcoming, it’s called having a conscience and care for my fellow man. Your nastiness is just another example of the massive chip on your shoulder common to people who identify themselves as cyclists, and it’s dull, so please stop boring us all with your strawman arguments. No one said people in cars were no responsible for their actions nor that there aren’t many idiot drivers out there. Several merely made the point that there are ALSO idiot pedestrians and bikers, particularly on that stretch of Yesler. Yeeeesh.
Really…. I’m sorry but I object to these attitudes that have been expressed by your reasonable people…
“there is a bizarre culture of “I’m not in a car, I dare you to run me over.” It’s insane.”
“I suppose he thinks his principles weigh more than my vehicle”
I’m not particularly surprised you’ve never had a ticket – few people on city streets get them unless they are doing something particularly egregious or the cops feel like stopping them for some other reason…. I actually drove a few miles the other day to pick up something large and heavy. For fun I counted the traffic offenses… in the whole 20 min or so I was driving I witnessed 27 vehicular offenses and 1 jay walker… hmmmmmmm
In any case his was about someone running down a little old lady…. I’ll just bet she ran out in front of the car… NOT…. meh, you are the one with the straw man arguments. The law supports the fact that drives bear more responsibility for road safety, even if the enforcement of these laws is lax… No one (me included) ever said pedestrians are completely absolved and don’t need to also be careful either….just that many of the things that people complain stridently about are wrong headed and that it is them – the drivers – that need to be more diligent. Again, its not my opinion….
See you later sock monkey
I’m apparently terminally unhip. What’s a sock monkey?
The pedestrian struck by the car was ****SHOCKER***** jaywalking! read the report by emailing [email protected]
Can’t you post it for all to read?