posted 11/15/11 06:32 PM | updated 11/16/11 11:29 AM
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EastPAC: NO! To the City of Seattle's Petition For Extended Hours Liquor Service

Editor's Note: This opinion piece is a community post by the East Precinct Advisory Council. CDN would like to remind you that anyone can post to the site by clicking "Post" in the navigation bar.

For the past year and a half, the Mayor’s Office has been promoting the “Seattle Nightlife Initiative” (SNI), a plan that focuses on extending hours for select Seattle nightclubs to serve alcohol past the current 2 AM cut-off. 

The City’s petition to extend alcohol service hours was developed collaboratively with the Seattle Nightlife & Music Association (SNMA – a group of Seattle nightclubs) intended to 'Solve the 2:00 AM Push Out'--There are those who believe that the trouble that occurs when nightclubs close at 2:00 AM can be avoided by staggering closing hours.  However, the negative residual issues that could occur with this proposed plan far outweigh any benefits. The extended hours plan will mainly increase liquor revenues to nightclubs – not improve public safety or create a socially responsible drinking environment—or 'a more vibrant nightlife’.  It serves the few in the private, special interest (nightclubs) category, not the many residents who would be impacted by noise, DUIs and alcohol-fueled violence.

During the summer of 2010, the Mayor’s Office sponsored several citywide community meetings to introduce the SNI proposal. The vast majority of attendees were adamantly against this plan, citing significant concerns about negative impacts to local communities. Afterwards, Precinct Advisory Councils and other neighborhood organizations wrote letters to the Mayor and City Council voicing their opposition.  Regardless of this broad community opposition, the proposal went forward anyway as a petition to the Liquor Control Board to extend hours for alcohol service. (Note: Recent surveys, distributed to target groups by the City, are being referenced by the City as community approval of this plan.)

Currently, the plan is under review by the Washington State Liquor Control Board for a “Proposed Rules Change”, which would allow Seattle to “create an area within the jurisdiction to extend service hours beyond 2 AM.”  -Which “area” would be designated?  This has not been identified.  Public comment will be accepted until December 1, 2011. The Board will be asked to approve the proposed rules by December 7th, public hearings will follow in January, and the Board could vote to adopt the rule by the end of January.

Citizens have expressed several concerns and questions about this initiative:

Ø     The City and State are struggling with a significant budget shortfall. Liquor control agent staff has been reduced to four for the entire city, and local police resources are already limited. Where will funds for regulation and enforcement come from?

Ø     Will police staffing to monitor and respond to late night drinking and all its problems be at the expense of other citywide public safety needs?

Ø     How will the City and County afford the proposed 24-hour public transport to get patrons home safe?

Ø     How will noise, throughout the night, every night, will be managed? (Note: Seattle has not, to our knowledge, issued a noise violation, despite numerous complaints by residents, the process is very cumbersome)

 Ø     If liquor service hours are extended until 6 AM, doesn’t that mean 24-hour alcohol sales – and no cut off?

Ø     If this becomes a pilot program in Seattle, what zone will be chosen?  Won’t patrons from outlying areas come to the extended hours zone, adding additional mass in the streets? 

Ø     Do you think young people (who will likely take advantage of extended hours) should be given the choice to have another drink or two or three at say, 4am?

 Ø     Why is the City supporting the Seattle Nightlife & Music Association?  This special interest group of bar owners is pushing this initiative through Seattle elected officials. Hasn’t this same special interest group made significant campaign contributions and won’t it profit if the extended hours proposal is passed?

The East Precinct Advisory Council, along with the West and South Precinct Advisory Councils, and the Central Seattle Drug-Free Communities Coalition, have voted to oppose this proposed rules change. The vast majority of the North Precinct Advisory Council members are opposed to the initiative as well; however, they have not yet taken a formal vote.  We want to stop this petition before it is passed in early December!

The Precinct Advisory Councils, The Drug-Free Communities Coalition and Citizens For A Responsible, Not Reckless Drinking Environment (RNR) ask that you object to this proposal!  We are urging you to write to the Liquor Control Board expressing your opposition to the plan. The deadline for this phase of the Rules Change Pre-Proposal Petition is December 1, 2011! 

For complete information on Seattle’s petition to open rule-making on extended hours of alcohol service:

http://www.liq.wa.gov/rules/extended-hours-rule-making

Please email call, fax or write your objection before the December 1

st deadline!

 WSLCB Headquarters

 Rules Coordinator

PO Box 43080

Olympia, WA 98504-3080

rules@liq.wa.gov

360.664.1631 Tel

360.664.9689 Fax

Liquor Board:

  • ·  Sharon Foster, Chair, of Olympia,   

      sf@liq.wa.gov, 360.664.1711

  • ·  Ruthann Kurose, of Mercer Island, 

     rkuro@liq.wa.gov, 360.664.1715

 

  • ·  Chris Marr, of Spokane,                    

      cjm@liq.wa.gov, 360.664.1713

Thank you for your commitment to public safety!

Minsinformation
It's unfortunate there is so much misinformation in this article.
First, a little history. In Greg Nickels' second term, he and Tom Carr put together a very onerous Nightlife Ordinance in response to several serious problems at a few nightclubs in Seattle. The Ordinance was shut down by council because they believed it went too far. But we were then left with the issue of the problems associated with a few clubs, and the general problems around the 2am push out.

Since that time, responsible bar, restaurant and nightclub owners have worked with the City and business groups to bring the problem clubs into compliance or have them closed (see the story around the V Bar in Belltown as an example). One of the issue we saw as a problem that needed to be addressed in our industry was the so called 2am push out. Around closing time, all bars and clubs push people out into the street at the same time. In zones where there are many bars, restaurants, clubs, the streets get packed and there is a lot of noise and sometimes violence as a result. Police resources get tapped. Criminals come into the area to target the people on the street.

We worked with the Liquor Board to see what cities around the world were doing. Many cities with the same issues had decided to extend or stagger closing times. In fact, whole countries have done this. Not to mention many states in the US. When done properly, what they saw was a lessening of pressure on police resources around closing time and less problems overall. There are no data showing an increase in drunk driving or violence.

In Seattle, we were able... read more
Comment by David Meinert
6 months ago
RE: Minsinformation
Hi Dave Meinert:
(Note- for those of you who don’t know, Dave Meinert is a local music and nightlife promoter, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/pacificnw/2012302278_p)

Here you go, on a few of your points:
1. “The 2am Push Out”: So, what’s to keep everyone from outlying areas, like Redmond, Woodinville, Tukwila, etc., from driving into Seattle and hitting the streets near the bars with extended hours? (Hey, I would’ve -back in the days when nightlife was affordable and cool with ALL live music) Don’t you just add to the problem of crowds in the streets?

2. “Noise ordinance enforcement”: Does anyone really know whether Seattle has ever issued a noise violation to a nightclub? The answer is, NO, they have not. The city has no program for this, no plan, except the idea of calling the police if you can’t sleep because of nightclub noise and getting a trained SPD expert with a noise-o-meter (I’m serious) that measures decibels inside homes with doors and windows shut.

3. “Issue bars a new license”: Only the State Liquor Board issues licenses and/or license amendments.
a)…“which brings in more revenue to the City to pay for more police” The money goes to the state.
b)…”allow the City to attach requirements to that license including a transportation plan”. The City doesn’t attach requirements, the state does. So… the bars are going to have busses available to provide patrons door-to-door transportation?
c) …”The license can be easily pulled by the City, instead of only by the State”. These are state, not city licenses. Only the state can pull a state license. Once... read more
Comment by Cheeda1
6 months ago
RE: Minsinformation
Answers for you

- There is nothing to keep people from driving in from other areas to go out in Seattle. In fact, they already do this. Will it bring more people? Maybe, and that's a good thing. Crowds are already a problem - but only at closing time resulting from the mandatory closing time. Adding more people to the inside of businesses won't increase the problem if the closing times are staggered. Doing nothing is the problem. The status quo that you support is not safe. We need a solution, and the Nightlife Initiative is that solution. It's why we saw fewer problems with nightlife this summer already. And with extended hours we'll see even less.

- Clubs have been forced to add sound insulation and made to turn down their volume even under the old noise rules. The new noise rules are much stricter and carry far heavier penalties if a venue doesn't comply. How many clubs have been fined isn't the question. The question is how many complaints have there been since the new noise rules went into effect and how many have been solved. The reality is that the issue with amplified noise coming from venues has been solved.

- You are incorrect. If a new license is issued, it could be controlled by the City, and the City could bring in revenue from it and put conditions on it. These conditions can be as I stated prior. This will all be dealt with in the actual proposal which doesn't exist yet. Hard to argue about it when it doesn't yet exist, no matter how much you would like to.

- Yes, the way the law currently is, with a mandatory closing time, binge drinking is encouraged. Getting... read more
Comment by David Meinert
6 months ago
Yes! To the City of Seattle’s Petition For Extended Hours Liquor Service
More mis-information from the little old ladys of the Moral Majority.
Comment by eyes
6 months ago
I totally support this
I totally support this. This is great overall. People are happier, and it will spread out the mass of people needing taxi, police etc.

I am not sure why there are oppositions.
Comment by Andrew
6 months ago
EXTEND THE HOURS!
Anyone that has ever been to a bar a closing time knows the chaos that follows. It just makes no sense to have people doing shots at last call then driving home. Stagger or extend closing times. Kill the old blue laws, let people live a little.
Comment by Ian
6 months ago
RE: EXTEND THE HOURS!
Don't just extend the hours. Do away with them. Why should the government be telling people when they can and can not drink. Let people go home when they're ready, the club closes at their chosen time, or the existing "do not serve when obviously drunk" laws get them cut off.
Comment by Jason
6 months ago
news article?
This seems more like one of those "yes on proposition whatever" ads. This is not news. It's opinion. What's next in the CD News? A "news" story by Michele Bachmann about the dangers of inoculations? And, by the way I'm not necessarily for or against extended hours for bars (I know it's appropriate for some neighborhoods) I'm just against opinion pass passing for news. We already have enough of that from FOX.
Comment by twilightexitllc3
6 months ago
RE: news article?
Not news, and not by CDN. This is an opinion community post from the East Precinct Advisory Council. As you know, anyone can post on CDN. I have modified the headline to better reflect that the piece was written by EastPAC.
Comment by Tom Fucoloro
6 months ago
This is for Public Safety
As a member of the North Precinct Advisory Council, it is not true that a vast majority of our group is opposed. We do recognize that the current status is not providing the desired public safety results and that society as whole has changed in the ways and the hours that we socialize. Young legal aged adults are out much later then in generations past causing a swelling at the current last call hour of 2 am. We are committed to helping Seattle become a more safe & vibrant city for all. One of the main complaints from neighborhood groups is around noise at bar closing time, not from noise when the people are in the establishments. There is also the problem of a shortage of taxi's available at the 2 am push out, increasing the crowd issues. Allowing for people to leave when they want to will help not hurt. I also sit on the Washington State Restaurant Associations Board and we to support these efforts. It's easy to criticize businesses, oppose change and use baseless scare tactics, but really looking at the complex issues and working to evolve as a great city for all (including young legal aged adults) takes more effort and a willingness to break out of our us vs. them posturing.
Comment by Pete Hanning
6 months ago
North Precinct Advisory Council letter of objection
NPAC representatives sent the following letter to to Liquor Control Board:

Dear Sirs,
The mayor of Seattle has asked that the LCB open its rule making process to consider the idea of allowing 24/7 liquor service. I'm opposed to that idea and ask that you not open the process and to not consider this rule change. Partly I think that extended service hours would do more harm than good. But I'm also very disappointed in the way this process was started by the Mayor and his staff.
The city petition information states:
"Two recent polls found broad public support for such an extension, with more than 75% of over 4,000 participants indicating a preference for extended alcohol service hours.3 City outreach to 14 community meetings over the course of 4 months also showed overwhelming support, provided that all other elements of the Nightlife Initiative are completed."
This is at least partly untrue. I know that the first poll was only marketed to those groups and media predisposed in general to be supportive of the idea. Other groups and areas of the city that were likely to be less supportive were much less likely to even know about the proposal or the poll until after the poll period was finished. I have no way of knowing if this was intentional or not. The effect was the same - skewed results that favor the rule change.
In addition, the public outreach process was seriously flawed. The Seattle Police North Precinct Advisory Council, which represents about 40% of the city area and population, was only given the proposal at the very last minute, with virtually no time to consider... read more
Comment by EastPAC
6 months ago
RE: North Precinct Advisory Council letter of objection
The above is NOT a letter from the North Precinct Advisory Council. It's from one member trying to pretend he speak for the entire council and community, but who obviously does not.
Comment by bullshit
6 months ago
RE: North Precinct Advisory Council letter of objection
Pete Rogerson is a designated representative of the chair of the North Precinct Advisory Council.
Comment by Cheeda1
6 months ago
RE: North Precinct Advisory Council letter of objection
LOL, gee if the bar closing hours change in Seattle, there will be an onslaught of drunks from North King County....
Who's this guy from, King County? The same people who brought us the refusal to post the 'Made In America' ads? And then lied about it?'
"I know that this was marketed to people predisposed to agree with this idea" Really...you know that? Awesome.
Excuse me, but your North Precinct Advisory Council should confine itself to its own jurisdiction. I live on Capitol Hill, and I KNOW what happens at closing time, and this is an excellent way to help the City control this problem.

So stop claiming to represent facts you don't have. OK?
Comment by sga
5 months ago
The SPD Supports Extended Hours
Just to make it clear, the SPD reiterated today, including the Captain of the East Precinct, that they support the plan to have staggered or extended closing times.

So does the entire City Council - http://council.seattle.gov/2011/07/25/seattle-city-council-u

And here's a quote from another article ( http://www.queenanneview.com/tag/seattle-police/)

“We believe that this initiative will strengthen public safety as well as promote a vibrant nightlife. We fully support this effort,“ Diaz said in a statement. Given that police resources are often challenged at Seattle’s blanket 2 a.m. closing time, many in law enforcement say this, along with other components of the Initiative, will help them maintain public safety and allow them to deploy officers more effectively. Last August the city passed another initiative aimed at helping combat difficult closing times allowing officers to dish out $100 tickets for fighting, threatening others, or making excessive or “unreasonable noise” in public areas between the hours of midnight and 5 a.m.

“The City Attorney’s Office will work with the Mayor, SPD and the City Council to ensure that the proposed rule changes provide comprehensive safeguards that will ensure public safety,” Holmes said. “The extended hours program will succeed if we anticipate and plan for problems that may arise.”
Comment by David Meinert
6 months ago
RE: The SPD Supports Extended Hours
Don't the police work for the City?
Comment by Cheeda1
6 months ago
RE: The SPD Supports Extended Hours
Everyone who works for the city does not have to have the same opinion. Duh.
Comment by Jim98122x
6 months ago
SEATTLE LOOKS LIKE A RUST BEST CITY AT NIGHT
people with cars also have money and they are not coming to seattle at night where you park somewhere and then get towed or ticketed. all those cabbie cars buzzing around at night that the city bought for the cab drivers are empty and they are driving recklessly. there is almost no reason to go to seattle. make it a rule you can park anywhere until 4:30 a.m. i do not know where i can and cannot park so i do not bother coming to seattle.

this city catered to people who moved here from nyc who want to get drunk, buy the onion-infested street food then take a hybrid cab home. there are not enough of those people here but the city stupidly listened to them for ideas that do not work. bike lanes are everywhere and i see maybe 10 people a night using them. people who cannot afford cars can't afford anything. all those bike lanes were not needed since they could have been parking spaces at night.

the common good is not practiced in seattle.
Comment by HILDA HEIFERMANN
6 months ago
RE: SEATTLE LOOKS LIKE A RUST BEST CITY AT NIGHT
What a bunch of total nonsense....
Comment by sga
5 months ago
$100 fines for assaults?
when did assaults and terroristic threats become something that the city issues a $100 fine for? when word of this gets out everyone will want to "throw down" in seattle and it will drive out any remaining cool people left.

why are special polices made for drunks who commit assaults and make terroristic threats who are not homeless? who is on the city payroll making these asinine policies?
Comment by me
6 months ago
sat. and sunday 6 .am. closing time
the 6 a.m. closing would have to be for saturday and sunday mornings. 4 a.m. for the other days. bars should not be forced to throw people out at 2a.m. even if they are forced to stop serving alcohol at 2 a.m.

they made those people drunk and they should sit there with them until 3 a.m. or 4 a.m.
Comment by me
6 months ago
Bars can stay open late now.
They just can't serve alcohol after 2:00 AM. They can serve food and all other beverages.
Comment by joanna
6 months ago
Mr Rogerson and all his claims...
Britain has had the 12pm closing time for 30 years or so...I'm glad it seems sensible to you, how nice for you.
I would suggest two things:
-your personal opinion is not a 'fact'
-stop using your position on City advisory councils as if you are Mayor
Comment by sga
5 months ago
Mr Rogerson needs to resign for evident misuse of his 'position'
Sir,
You are not an elected official, and you have the hutzpuh to express your separate opinion as if it were representative of the multiple advisory committees you represent?
Tomorrow I will writing a letter to the WSLCB complaining that your comments are totally out of line, and that you should be removed.
Comment by sga
5 months ago
Thank you for a reasoned analysis
I don't know what your Mr Rogerson has against night clubs (that are not in his neighborhood) and has the temerity to suggest that a solution is to cut back rather than increase club hours here...
I LIVE HERE and what we think should have a whole lot more weight more than some unelected fool who thinks his own opinion is worth more than the opinions of the people in the neighborhoods they impact.
Rogerson, keep your opinions to North Seattle, and if there is any substantiation that this will cause problems in Fremont or the UDistrict, please feel free to suggest they be exempt.
There's not enough demand there, that's why. There is here. Either move here or STFU.
Comment by sga
5 months ago
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