Streetcar cost & ridership are in, west routes likely out

By scott
(1 votes) (report abuse)
Documents
FirstHillStreetcarAlignmentAssessmentSummary.pdf

Today's open house for the First Hill Streetcar included the first detailed analysis of cost, ridership, and other impacts for the various routes that are under consideration.

Here's how they shake out:

  • Two-way Broadway - Scores the highest overall, with the lowest construction cost, nearly the highest ridership, and fewest impacts to traffic and cyclists
  • Broadway/12th Couplet - Scores in the middle of the pack, with slightly less ridership, slightly higher construction costs, and a big penalty for interfering with an existing cycling route.
  • Boylston/Seneca & Boren/Seneca - The westernmost routes score lowest overall, with much higher construction costs, higher operating costs, and longer travel times. The one area they do better in is ridership, with the top numbers compared to other routes, although only 5% higher than Broadway in fully built-out conditions.

It's important to note that construction cost estimates on the westernmost routes on First Hill currently exceed the $132 million budget that is provided by Sound Transit. That means that the city would have to chip in its own money to build them, something that is very unlikely given the current state of city finances. The Boren/Seneca route is also the most expensive in terms of operating cost, coming in at a round value of $5 million, putting it perilously close to the $5.2 million value of the annual operating subsidy provided by Sound Transit. It's hard to see the city going forward with either option if those costs solidify at such high levels.

One interesting fact is how well the Broadway/12th route came out in terms of ridership. I think some people assumed it would be significantly lower, but it came within 1,000 to 2,000 riders in both the current conditions and future build-out conditions, with large overlap in the estimate ranges.

But based on current momentum, it looks like the final decision will come down to 2-way Broadway vs. Broadway/12th, and that 12th will be the big underdog.

You can see all this in person, ask questions, and state your route preferences at two more streetcar meetings this week.

Here's the full matrix of data presented on the 5 routes at the open house today. More details on the criteria used is contained in the document linked above.

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posted on Tue, Feb 09, 2010 05:47 PM
last updated on Wed, Feb 10, 2010 11:47 AM
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Unfortunate byMadrona1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It is sad that all the streetcar lines that existed in the early 20th century were removed... only for us to want them back. We could have saved a lot of money and enjoyed more urban density if they remained. *sigh*
RE: Unfortunate byMadrona1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Linked is a map of Seattle showing the streetcar routes at its height:
RE: Unfortunate byjoshuadf1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Close, but that's the 1941 map after convertion to electric buses (many of which were later replaced by diesels, including the MT 8 on MLK); here's the 1933 Seattle Municipal Street Railway:
http://oddmart.com/2008/09/01/1933-seattle-streetcar-map/

For additional fun, this 1909 map has the main streetcar routes over 100 years ago:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seattlemunicipalarchives/257575
1941 map byJRo1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Thanks for posting the old maps and links. Interesting that the 1941 routes #11 & 27 seem roughly similar to today's bus routes with those numbers.
Makes Sense byBerhens1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The two-way Broadway line is the most intuitive.

You want to catch the streetcar, you go to Broadway. None of the south on Broadway, north on 12th trouble.

I'm all for advocating for our neighborhood and maybe the Broadway and 12th plan will help bring to light the need for better options on 12th, but I'm not sorry to hear they won't be tearing up 12th avenue to put in a merry-go-round!
RE: Makes Sense byjoanna1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
How does it make sense to send the street car both ways down Broadway. Placement and design of the station/stop could well accommodate the loop.
Broadway is a very narrow street compared to Westlake, which is being used as an expample. In fact when I addressed this issue with one of the leaders of the project all he could say was,"That's right Westlake is two lanes both ways."
RE: Makes Sense byJay1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
It makes sense from the user perspective to have the streetcar running both directions on Broadway, especially for new or occasional users. Its intuitive to go back to the same area where you got off the streetcar to catch it for your return trip. How many bus routes are there where you have to go to a parallel street 3 or 4 blocks away to find a stop to catch a bus for your return trip?
Makes Sense byBeh1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Is Westlake wider than Broadway? I guess that could make a difference? I thought they were both 2 lanes both ways? Are you saying the lanes are slimmer?
RE: Makes Sense byscott1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
SDOT diagrams show that broadway is 52' wide curb to curb. And judging from my Google Earth measurements, Westlake north of Denny is the same.
Westlake north of Denny? South? byjoanna1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
How is the measurement south of Denny?

In any case, this was a response to my concern regarding the traffic already existing on Broadway and the impact on current traffic patterns and mass transit. Broadway is generally quite congested, including trucks for deliveries. Also I was attempting to get details on the plan for bike bike lanes on Broadway, which do not now exist. Nonetheless, there seems to be a plan for them, and I was thinking couldn't this same ideas for mitigation for that plan could be useful in advocating for the 12th Avenue loop. I was attempting to find out about this issue when I was interrupted by some one concerned about bike routes and suddenly they both seemed to agree that there was some significant difference between Broadway and Denny. They looked at each other and said, "That is right, Westlake easily has 2 lanes both ways." The main question I had at that point had to do with current use and impact and did not get answered.

My experience with Westlake is limited, but it never seemed as congested as Broadway. I appreciate any light that can be shown on this and will be attending future sessions and again attempt to clarify the situation.
Potential Riders NOT Ridership byAdam Bejan Parast1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
To clarify the "ridership figures" are not ridership per say. They are trip generators within a certain distance. So relative to their potential ridership the 12th ave couplet will lose ridership because of the lower quality service caused by the couplet, while the western options will lose ridership because it is slower. Two-way Broadway wouldn't be affected by either of these issues so compared to the potential ridership it will do the best. Anyways what I'm saying is that Two-way broadway will outperform the options more that these figures indicate.
RE: Potential Riders NOT Ridership byRev.Smith3 weeks ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Adam: thank you for being a great transit advocate. Love reading your posts.
Please enlighten me/ us readers:
Would a 'western' route (read: alignment actually on First Hill) run any faster -and therefore have better ridership- were it not running on the infamously clogged Boren??

Minor or 9th
... seem ripe for the picking and also lend themselves nicely as places of potential development (throwing a bone to the tangent-inducing "the streetcar should be for $$$" crowd). More importantly for a person from the "density-requires-transit" crowd, Minor or 9th run right through the heart of the 7000+ resident-filled First Hill neighborhood/urbanvillage.
Whereas Broadway (S. of Pike) runs 'through' nada and in fact IS the OUTER border of 2 neighborhoods: aside from Swedish's ER, I'm not seeing the allure of the Broadway alignment S. of the Pike/Pine neighborhood...
Looking N. from Pike/Pine it's also not an airtight case; for 3 blocks it serves ONE address/business (SCCC) until you get to Denny. ...Where's it's planned to terminate! (for a while).
[ I worry most people hear "Broadway Alignment streetcar" and assume it might take them from, say, Dick's to Gruv -or- Cornish to SU -or- from QFC to QFC,
and that just won't be the case. This is a SOUTH half of Broadway alignment: getting you from Childhaven to the Bonney Watson Funeral Parlour at best.]

With a Minor or 9th alignment, I'm imagining traffic lights timed to help the streetcar cross Madison with as little pause as possible. The rest of the blocks are very low traffic, so the streetcar ought to fly along. Also, this would run near-parallel with the bus tunnel (and their Walk Sheds would nearly meet edge-to-edge in a nice aligned grid!!!) Please explain what's so much more flawed in a Minor or 9th plan than with B'Way....?
Sorry the timing of these meetings is bad for me but byktkeller1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Are they still considering that loop around the school at the south end of the route?

In any case, while I want the 12th loop, Broadway at least is central to the original planned station. I would expect changes in traffic -- at least I would hope the thing gets priority ROW somehow, else what's the point of not just having a bus!
safe bikes on 12th byjackson place resident1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
if 12th is such a major bike corridor, parking on the west side of 12th should be removed altogether. and a separated two-way bike corridor as proposed by the cap hill folks for broadway should be put on 12th.
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